Cant Change Gear

[Parts-King]

Oh heck!

Yes keep hold of all the parts, photo's and anything relevent. You went the genuine part route?

Kingo

[chatman]

Oh heck!

Yes keep hold of all the parts, photo's and anything relevent. You went the genuine part route?

Kingo

Yea genuine parts and they are a good garage.....(have a Land Rover place across road) gets loads of Business :lol:

Garage is Taylors Car Care...recommend them to anyone......

Guy is a gem and fights the clients case were ever possible and will tell you all parts and cost's (less vat) :o add it on at end.....

So lets wait till Friday for the road test.....Least I get new gear box oil now..Been wanting to change that :rolleyes:

[bothwell_buyer]

A not so subtle warning re the beans - I tried Baked Bean Rogan Josh last night with Mango Pickle (Pataks) for dinner. Don't do it! It clears the system faster than the doctors tablets...

good luck with the RAV... we're hoping to pull the gearbox out of mine tomorrow to look at the clutch.

Dennis who is doing much of the work won a prize at the weekend for his original style mini - 330bhp from his implanted 1.4 turbo'd Rover engine!!

[Fujisan]

A not so subtle warning re the beans - I tried Baked Bean Rogan Josh last night with Mango Pickle (Pataks) for dinner. Don't do it! It clears the system faster than the doctors tablets...

Post your recipe Bothy, that sounds good. Can't beat experimental cooking

Heston Bloomingheck has made a fortune out of it

[bothwell_buyer]

A not so subtle warning re the beans - I tried Baked Bean Rogan Josh last night with Mango Pickle (Pataks) for dinner. Don't do it! It clears the system faster than the doctors tablets...

Post your recipe Bothy, that sounds good. Can't beat experimental cooking

Heston Bloomingheck has made a fortune out of it

1 tin baked beans from anywhere. A jar of pataks Rogan Josh to save time & a jar of Pataks mango mixed pickle.

Small saucepan + beans, & 2 tablespoons of rogan josh paste (I have done it with vindaloo and lost 3 stones in the following 2 days). Warm slowly and stir - if it sticks to the bottom even better as it adds flavour. Add pickle - you can choose medium or hot pickle. A touch of water to keep the stuff from burning on the pot bottom. If you are keen, throw in a little basmati rice as it saves washing another pot. When warmed enough - after about 3 whiskies; scrape food into a bowl and settle down with another whisky + 6 hankies.

I've used the same approach with frozen sprouts from last Christmas and it was really good. If you have some frozen shredded onion, use some of that as well. No point in chopping yer own onion as it wastes drinking time.

Just watch if yer going to use spinach as it becomes very rich, but it will ensure you spend the next day in a small room by yersel......

I bought 4 dozen jars of pataks various from Bookers cheap!!

best to sit on a plastic bag if yer out in the car next day.....

Buuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpppp!

[anchorman]

Anchorman....is it worth me seeing what they will do...

Chatman

I would like nothing more than to give you some good news on this but until I get some clarification on the information I have got so far from Toyota, I don't want to falsely raise your hopes.

There are several people out there that would very much like to know what the heck is going on so I will give you some of the more pertinent information. They have stated , and I quote;

"With our commitment to customer satisfaction we extended the warranty to meet the repair costs for this problem for vehicles up to 5 years old or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs sooner. If a failure occurs outside of this extended period a Toyota Centre is not able to submit a warranty claim. I have to confirm that no extra time or mileage will be added to this warranty extension and all Toyota Centres are aware of the above information.

My recommendation would be that owners who experience a failure outside of this period should contact their Toyota Centre and if they feel it appropriate, contact would be made to our Customer Relations Department for their consideration".

You can see my problem here. On one hand it seems that an extension of the 5 year/100000 mile warranty is not an option but on the other it seems that they recommend that you might like to discuss the matter with "your Toyota Centre". My feeling is that this would certainly require you to have entrusted the work with your Toyota Centre and not with a third party contractor. Now whether or not the contribution you might get would offset the additional cost of having it done there is anybody's guess at the moment but I am very intrigued by Kingo's comment - "Yes keep hold of all the parts, photo's and anything relevent". Kingo please elaborate.

Please be assured that I have asked some very direct questions about this statement (at the moment it is not even clear if the warranty includes parts and labour) and as soon as I can I will post something.

I would seriously recommend that nobody jumps to any conclusions here, good, bad or otherwise. Lets wait to see what they say and not conclude what we think.

Regards

[Fujisan]

A not so subtle warning re the beans - I tried Baked Bean Rogan Josh last night with Mango Pickle (Pataks) for dinner. Don't do it! It clears the system faster than the doctors tablets...

Post your recipe Bothy, that sounds good. Can't beat experimental cooking

Heston Bloomingheck has made a fortune out of it

1 tin baked beans from anywhere. A jar of pataks Rogan Josh to save time & a jar of Pataks mango mixed pickle.

Small saucepan + beans, & 2 tablespoons of rogan josh paste (I have done it with vindaloo and lost 3 stones in the following 2 days). Warm slowly and stir - if it sticks to the bottom even better as it adds flavour. Add pickle - you can choose medium or hot pickle. A touch of water to keep the stuff from burning on the pot bottom. If you are keen, throw in a little basmati rice as it saves washing another pot. When warmed enough - after about 3 whiskies; scrape food into a bowl and settle down with another whisky + 6 hankies.

I've used the same approach with frozen sprouts from last Christmas and it was really good. If you have some frozen shredded onion, use some of that as well. No point in chopping yer own onion as it wastes drinking time.

Just watch if yer going to use spinach as it becomes very rich, but it will ensure you spend the next day in a small room by yersel......

I bought 4 dozen jars of pataks various from Bookers cheap!!

best to sit on a plastic bag if yer out in the car next day.....

Buuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpppp!

That's wonderful Bothy Thank you. I'll have to try that when the wife is at work

[anchorman]

Now we know why he has propane powered vehicles :P

[PinkMinkee]

you lot are all mad........i think i'm going to like it here, but grrrrrrr at DMF's i dont like them already and I don't have a rav yet lol :)

[anchorman]

Don't forget there are lots of DMFs that don't cause problems and yes you are quite right we ar practically all barking madddddddddddddddd

[TSB Lurch]

Hi Everyone.

Need a bit of TOC advise/help on this issue?

I have a RAV4 D4D, 02 plate, and 60,000 miles.

Just had the cam belt changed at the 60K service but have been advised my clutch may need replacing. I have noticed some vibration & noise but can’t pinpoint it. The clutch pedal is very stiff but I assumed this was normal for a 4WD?? Wifey has a T180 with hydraulic clutch so just assumed mine was meant to be this way.

Also I often have trouble changing from 4th to 3rd even when the engine is switched off.

I have read through your posts and can relate to several of your comments, and would like to go fully armed with knowledge to my Toyota Dealership.

As a complete novice to RAV4’s (Only had them in the family for 9 months) can you advise/help with this impending problem?

On a happier note, I love my RAV4 to bits! Best vehicle I have ever owned (including my Honda Civic years)

Many Thanks

TSB Lurch

[Fujisan]

Welcome to the TOC, TSB Lurch

I'm sure you will find the answer to your questions here :P

[Fujisan]

you lot are all mad........i think i'm going to like it here,

What's the worst that can happen? Next time you have friends over for dinner, serve them up Bothy's special recipe, Spicey Beans :D

[dave.m]

Hi Lurch and welcome to TOC, read all these threads regarding the DMF and clutch.

Then pay your local MrT a visit armed with all the info you need, though you dont say

what month your was registered, I'm assuming its less than five years old.

Good luck ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

you lot are all mad........i think i'm going to like it here,

What's the worst that can happen? Next time you have friends over for dinner, serve them up Bothy's special recipe, Spicey Beans :D

A distinct advantage of humans and propane vehicles is that if you run out of gas, you can f*$t into the tank !! :shutit: :shutit: Especially after a good Baked Bean curry. Dunno about how it affects the CO2 emission ??

[chatman]

Anchorman....is it worth me seeing what they will do...

Chatman

I would like nothing more than to give you some good news on this but until I get some clarification on the information I have got so far from Toyota, I don't want to falsely raise your hopes.

There are several people out there that would very much like to know what the heck is going on so I will give you some of the more pertinent information. They have stated , and I quote;

"With our commitment to customer satisfaction we extended the warranty to meet the repair costs for this problem for vehicles up to 5 years old or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs sooner. If a failure occurs outside of this extended period a Toyota Centre is not able to submit a warranty claim. I have to confirm that no extra time or mileage will be added to this warranty extension and all Toyota Centres are aware of the above information.

My recommendation would be that owners who experience a failure outside of this period should contact their Toyota Centre and if they feel it appropriate, contact would be made to our Customer Relations Department for their consideration".

You can see my problem here. On one hand it seems that an extension of the 5 year/100000 mile warranty is not an option but on the other it seems that they recommend that you might like to discuss the matter with "your Toyota Centre". My feeling is that this would certainly require you to have entrusted the work with your Toyota Centre and not with a third party contractor. Now whether or not the contribution you might get would offset the additional cost of having it done there is anybody's guess at the moment but I am very intrigued by Kingo's comment - "Yes keep hold of all the parts, photo's and anything relevent". Kingo please elaborate.

Please be assured that I have asked some very direct questions about this statement (at the moment it is not even clear if the warranty includes parts and labour) and as soon as I can I will post something.

I would seriously recommend that nobody jumps to any conclusions here, good, bad or otherwise. Lets wait to see what they say and not conclude what we think.

Regards

Thanks Anchorman....Just back from picking up courtesy car and saw RAV up on ramp and all bits laying around....Guy showed me the DMF part.... :eek: hole the size of your thumb in casing and those mothers are heavy things (know what you mean now Kingo!!!) clutch still had life left in it...but also saw pin plate and gouge in it made by DMF failing...mechanic also found the bit of metal from the DMF (this was what the metallic rattling was). He said he had never seen a DMF failed like this before...changed loads over the years but mine was a new issue on them....

Defiantly a DMF failing here and rubbish parts....lucky I stopped when I did..... :o :o still cant fathom why that part costs so much though.....is it based on £ per weight ration....as it's !Removed! heavy thing...

Any way should have her back by Friday and keeping all the old parts, so will do a nice little snap shot of the offending DMF........

[chatman]

Hi Everyone.

Need a bit of TOC advise/help on this issue?

I have a RAV4 D4D, 02 plate, and 60,000 miles.

Just had the cam belt changed at the 60K service but have been advised my clutch may need replacing. I have noticed some vibration & noise but can’t pinpoint it. The clutch pedal is very stiff but I assumed this was normal for a 4WD?? Wifey has a T180 with hydraulic clutch so just assumed mine was meant to be this way.

Also I often have trouble changing from 4th to 3rd even when the engine is switched off.

I have read through your posts and can relate to several of your comments, and would like to go fully armed with knowledge to my Toyota Dealership.

As a complete novice to RAV4’s (Only had them in the family for 9 months) can you advise/help with this impending problem?

On a happier note, I love my RAV4 to bits! Best vehicle I have ever owned (including my Honda Civic years)

Many Thanks

TSB Lurch

I would get as much info on this as you can and then go to the dealer...don't demand it to be done but just enlighten them to this WELL DOCUMENTED Problem ....they will (sorry, May not) know this issue and be as upto date as we all are on here. I'm sure the issues you are experiencing will be dealt with in a timely and professional manner....if not tell us and were send the boys round :ph34r: :fishyface: to ruff em up a bit and explain why they should do it....

Welcome to the club as well Lurch :thumbsup:

[Fujisan]

Any way should have her back by Friday and keeping all the old parts, so will do a nice little snap shot of the offending DMF........

Glad your RAV will be back with you soon

Those photo's should make very interesting viewing

[TSB Lurch]

Thanks Guys!

[Parts-King]

but I am very intrigued by Kingo's comment - "Yes keep hold of all the parts, photo's and anything relevent". Kingo please elaborate.

I didnt mean anything sinister, honest!

I just didnt want the parts to get binned and then somebody wipe their hands of the job because the parts were not kept. Keep everything, including photos etc, I will stick my neck out and make a prediction here. Toyota will not pay anything towards labour charges, you had it done at an independant garage, then after a lot of fuss, they will make a "Contribution" to the DMF and not the clutch, lets see if I'm right

Kingo

[anchorman]

The flywheel has to be heavy as it maintains the inertia of the engine. When the four pistons come down on the power stroke it is like they are being shot down the barrel of a cannon and they all take it in turns - 1,3,4,2. The trouble is that the next one in sequence does not start until the previous one as right at the bottom of the stroke so the turning moment on the crankshaft is very "lumpy". The crankshaft is like the pedals on a bicycle (except instead of two there are four in a row), it turns the reciprocating (up and down) motion of the pistons into rotary motion that is eventually connected to the wheels. In order to make the engine rotate smoothly, a flywheel which is nothing more than a very heavy round weight is bolted onto the rear of the crankshaft. When the mass of this flywheel gets spinning it helps to remove the "lumpyness" of when one piston gets to the botttom of a cylinder and the next one being fired from the top. In very old single and double cylinder engines it had to be huge to keep the engine turning. On this traction engine it is up by the driving cab and has the drive belts to the wheels on it;

You can see it very clearly on this single cylinder steam engine;

You can imagine that without this flywheel to carry the piston around to the next power stroke the engine would stop. In really big engines you need a really big flywheel and in this mill engine at Wigan Pier it weighs 70 tons;

Its hard for you to get a feel for just how big that is but if you look to the lower right of the picture there is a large double doorway into the mill. The flywheel has to be massive because it drives thousands of machines in the factory and as it is a spinning mill it is important that they turn at a constant speed.

Now we relate the role of the flywheel to the D4D engine. In most cars the flywheel would be a relatively simple affair - just a weight as already stated but these small modern diesels are phenominally powerful for their size and the power strokes are effectively very "lumpy". You can imagine that if you fired the pedals down on your bike with a cannon instead of pushing them with your legs then the bike would be very jerky! Of course you could fit an even bigger flywheel on an engine to smooth out the lumps but there are limitations because;

• They absorb more of the engines power, it would rev up slowly and also slow down slowly which effects performance and slows down the gear changing process by having to wait for the speeds of different gears to synchronise.
  
• They use more fuel.
  
• They are difficult to accommodate.
  

So the way that modern diesels are smoothed out is with a Dual Mass Flywheel similar to the one in this diagram;

You can see that the flywheel is in two pieces. One is connected to the pistons (and dont forget that there are four pistons) and then the other is connected to the transmission via a set of annular springs around the circumference of the flywheel. These springs absorb the lumpyness of the pistons and transmit smooth rotary motion to the transmission. It makes the car feel smoother to drive and almost eliminates any vibration that would cause knock on damage to the clutch and gearbox.

In this picture of a DMF belonging to one of our members, you can see that the bolts have become loose and the resultant damage around the eight fixing holes as the flywheel eventually worked loose.

This problem was addressed during August 2002 and should no longer occur. However, as the DMF is no longer a simple one piece design and has become more complex it is not impossible for it to fail in other ways. It should not be confused with clutch wear or failure which is considered a consumable wearing part.

[Parts-King]

Excellent tutorial Anchorman, well done. I think flywheel technology hasnt moved on as much as it could have done

Kingo

[Fujisan]

Excellant explaination Anchorman

Please can I suggest that you turn your tutorial in to a Technical post and then kindly ask for it to pinned in the RAV technical library.

[anchorman]

I don't mind if you think it would be helpful but you'll have to wait because its train driving time!!!

[Fujisan]

I don't mind if you think it would be helpful but you'll have to wait because its train driving time!!!

Have a good and safe shift